David Cameron promises vote on Europe: What do you think? (From Ledbury Reporter)

I think he's just saying whatever he thinks will get him re-elected.

The reason I say this is because that's what they always do.

Making promises that go beyond his current term is just smoke and mirrors. Do something now or shut up.

While UKIP can regard today's Cameron speech as its greatest achievement to date, the real work for that party, and all Euro-sceptics of whichever party, has only just begun.

Cameron has made clear his commitment to the existing EU Single Market, which will now become the rallying point for the old establishment in this country, in spite of the fact that the argument for the Single Market is just the same as the one used for the Common Market years ago, and has become so discredited with the UK electorate over the last four decades.

I believe that we now need to campaign for a trade deal with Europe, to cooperate and to be good neighbours but we do not want membership of a political union.

Finally, we have to question whether Cameron is completely devoted to taking powers back from Europe or whether his pledge was merely a ploy for election votes.

It will be interesting to see which side of the fence Robin Walker MP chooses to sit.

Yet another Cameron spout load of rubbish to deflect away the problems here, as reguard's Mr Walker he will do what he usually does sit on the fence or toe the party line as he does'nt care what the constituents think.

Has anyone ever done an unbiased cost-benefit analysis of our EU membership. What we get back versus what we put in? I've seen plenty of rhetoric and grand statements of "it costs us £x million per day" or "trade would fail without it". But is there, anywhere, an unbiased accouting report that I could look at. That'd be the only thing that would help me make up my mind one way or another.

When we joined the EEC all those years ago we joined for the purposes of trade, not European political integration. The Euro will never work without full, federal political union as in the USA. We are not in the eurozone and do not want our lives run from Brussels/Strasbourg.


When you go to a Whist Drive you don't expect to have to play Bridge at some stage in order to stay in the room!

By all means, keep an economic union but let us control our laws and have an immigration policy that we want.

I voted yes after being lied to by Ted Heath (who I hate with a vengeance) that it was just for trade only.
Now we have the deceit from Cameron whose speech was not to save Britain but to save the Tory Party, and by using the old trick often used by Blair and then Brown by saying it will go over into the next term of Parliament so you need to vote again for us, and although it worked for Blair until we wised up, it didn't work for Gordon Brown.
Having watched today's Prime Ministers Questions you would have thought that Cameron had won a war somewhere with the sad Tory sympathisers waving their papers in glee.
So what we do know is that with the conditions placed upon his almost pledge for a free vote for the public, The Tories are really saying NO to a free vote since I HOPE & Pray that they are not in power after 2014, and Labour are now saying NO to a FREE vote, And the LIB/LAB/DEM/TORY's are totally pro-Europe at any cost, So we only have one vote for a fringe party, but who stand up for the people of this country and that's UKIP. So we have to get as many UKIP MP's in to then form a strong enough Coalition party and we are home and dry. Nigel Ferage frequently talks about the corruption in Brussels, where the accounts haven't been audited for years, (and we are talking £Billions here) and the huge amounts of legislation from unelected staff which is seriously affecting the UK.
The people of the UK must get their act together and rid ourselves of the political pariahs we now suffer.
Don't Vote Labor , Don't Vote Tory, Don't Vote LIB/LAB/DEM/TORY.

If Mr Cameron was really serious about renegotiation, then he would invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which is the only mechanism that exists within the EU treaties to take powers back.

If he did that then we take him seriously but thinking about it, all he is trying to do with this announcement is to kick the can down the road and get UKIP off his back.

However, progress has been made as we now know how long the road is!

Just more meaningless flannel from a politician who knows he's lost the arguement but hasn't got the balls to admit it.

He'd better be quick, or there will be so many Europeans living in the UK they will all vote and get the majority to stay in !!

He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

Ed Miliband, the current leader of the Labour party, has today said he does not support a referendum on EU membership, saying it is a "huge gamble" that will cause years of uncertainty.

This comes on the day after Brussels was accused of a plot to set up curbs on Press freedom. An EU document calls for each European Union state to install media watchdogs with powers to strip journalists of their professional credentials and impose swingeing fines – all co-ordinated by Brussels. Toe the Brussels dictatorship line, or lose your job; sounds like the way the USSR treated press freedoms.

Miliband's position has to be understood within the context of the Labour party EU policy, which involves colluding in the building of a nation, but it's not ours. It is a Federal Europe, with a central bank, central government, centralised power, a foreign policy, a single military, and a “controlled” press.

The sovereign nation-states will by necessity be reduced to mere provinces of the United States of Europe. This is the real reason why Ed Milliband will not support a referendum giving the people of this country a choice.

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, my first reaction was that you were joking and I was amused; then there was a gradual realisation that you may be serious.

Please tell us it isn't so.

Lew Smoralz wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, my first reaction was that you were joking and I was amused; then there was a gradual realisation that you may be serious.

Please tell us it isn't so.

Of course I'm serious, I'm always serious.

pronstar wrote:

Lew Smoralz wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, my first reaction was that you were joking and I was amused; then there was a gradual realisation that you may be serious.

Please tell us it isn't so.

Of course I'm serious, I'm always serious.

A pornstar's serious face is still rather amusing though.

I think you can sum up pronstar as follows - serious, but should not be taken seriously.

David Cameron will be dissapointed with the response to his attempt to persuade voters to stay in the EU, according to the first opinion poll since his landmark speech on Europe.

A poll in The Times today shows the UK would vote by 53% to 47% to leave the European Union if a referendum was held now and not in 2017, as the Prime Minister is proposing.

In a blow to the Prime Minister and senior Tories, the Populus poll suggests UKIP voters are unimpressed by Mr Cameron’s referendum and negotiate ploy.

Only 8% of UKIP supporters said the PM’s referendum pledge made them more likely to vote Tory.

More than twice that number of UKIP voters, 17%, said they were now less likely to vote Conservative and 75% said they were unmoved.

The poll will be a major disappointment to Mr Cameron and his inner circle, who would have been hoping for a substantial referendum bounce in the first poll since his speech on Wednesday.

More **** from Cameron. The economy now faces five years of uncertainty about our continued membership of the EU. What sane foreign entrepreneur is going to set up shop here with that sort of backdrop?

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, you either have a wicked sense of humour, or an extraordinary deficit of understanding on this hugely impactful issue!

Not only are our public services already struggling for funding, and having to cut back even on essential services, but no amount of investment in them could ameliorate the damage that yet more of Europe's poorest immigrants will inflict on Britain, her culture, communities, and economy.

Cameron's speech was a predictably jam tomorrow one, designed more to bolster his chances of re-election, than to behave democratically by giving the long-ignored people he purports to represent the right to a referendum. How much more damage will our country have endured by the time Cameron's belated promise comes to fruition?

Perhaps Cameron, the idiot Miliband, and Clegg, might explain precisely how giving carte blanche to millions of poor eastern Europeans to live in Britain, take jobs when our young people cannot find work, commit crime, or scrounge the benefits, housing, education, and healthcare that none of them have actually paid for, enriches anyone other than them? And how does Britain pay for it? By becoming broke very quickly, and losing her identity under a cacophony of eastern European languages!

UKIP is the only serious political force that recognises the only way for Britain to regain her sovereignty within Europe is to break the strings of the Brussels puppeteers, so that future British governments once again have control of British borders.

It is time politicians stopped pretending to be democratic, because if they were, they would not seek to avoid referenda on major decisions, in the way that Cameron, Miliband, and Clegg have done, and continue to do.

UKIP - the last refuge for nutjobs and proto-racists a bit too squemish to vote BNP.

I have to comment on The Doorsa, After many years I have come out of Political retirement and paid my subs to UKIP, not purely on the total lack of control on immigration, but mainly on the facts that between 40% and 705 of diktat for the UK comes from un-elected bureaucrat's in Brussels.
As a proud Englishman this situation has been eating away at my Nationality to reach a point no longer accepted, so Yes I have joined UKIP, and I appeal to those who feel the same way as me and who DO NOT follow the BNP, to do the same.
Just Google UKIP and go.

Should say 70%, of course.

ushmush83 wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Lew Smoralz wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, my first reaction was that you were joking and I was amused; then there was a gradual realisation that you may be serious.

Please tell us it isn't so.

Of course I'm serious, I'm always serious.

A pornstar's serious face is still rather amusing though.

What are you talking about?

willing wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, you either have a wicked sense of humour, or an extraordinary deficit of understanding on this hugely impactful issue!

Not only are our public services already struggling for funding, and having to cut back even on essential services, but no amount of investment in them could ameliorate the damage that yet more of Europe's poorest immigrants will inflict on Britain, her culture, communities, and economy.

Cameron's speech was a predictably jam tomorrow one, designed more to bolster his chances of re-election, than to behave democratically by giving the long-ignored people he purports to represent the right to a referendum. How much more damage will our country have endured by the time Cameron's belated promise comes to fruition?

Perhaps Cameron, the idiot Miliband, and Clegg, might explain precisely how giving carte blanche to millions of poor eastern Europeans to live in Britain, take jobs when our young people cannot find work, commit crime, or scrounge the benefits, housing, education, and healthcare that none of them have actually paid for, enriches anyone other than them? And how does Britain pay for it? By becoming broke very quickly, and losing her identity under a cacophony of eastern European languages!

UKIP is the only serious political force that recognises the only way for Britain to regain her sovereignty within Europe is to break the strings of the Brussels puppeteers, so that future British governments once again have control of British borders.

It is time politicians stopped pretending to be democratic, because if they were, they would not seek to avoid referenda on major decisions, in the way that Cameron, Miliband, and Clegg have done, and continue to do.

You need to ask more of the system that governs you.

Will Mr CAMERON win the General election? It rather looks his promise to hold an "in" or "OUT" of the EUs is in the faint hope that he might win a second term-the people are certainly not going to fall for that.

However, the good news is, now that we know for sure ALL THREE MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES WANT TO REMAIN IN THE EU FOREVER there is absolutely no point in voting for any one of those three. We cannot afford financially to remain in the European Union anyway and continue to pay for two full to the brim Houses in our once proud Houses of Parliament and continue to pay the many billions of British Pounds to the EU at the same time. How many billions have we handed over since 1972? Plus paying ALL the EU Agencies too. It is particularly galling to contribute to the EU’s Defence Agency when our Government is cutting down on our own Defence!

So Guys, the campaign is on to use the Coming General Election as the REFEREDUM we have never had in all these years since 1975. Without doubt, not one British Government has worked for this, their own country and their own people, always even now putting the EU before this their own Country. Their solemn and binding Oath of Allegiance is to this, their own Country and although we may have freely voted for them, they may not take their seats until the have sworn their allegiance to the British Crown, the Crown that represents all the people in the Monarch’s Realm
It is indeed time the tables were turned on those three Major Political Parties that want foreigners to make the laws, that they then in turn incorporate into our law. To allow foreigners to make such laws is absolutely contrary to our Constitution. Probably to votre "YES" to remain in the eU through their proposed Referendum would over-ride our own Constitution, and according to law R v Thistlewood 1820 To destroy our Constitution is treason. That is one Treason Act that cannot be repealed because it is there for all time to protect our Constitution.

The comments on here, and the poll result above just show the total lack of information - and amount of press-baron-induced mis-information - prevalent in the UK today on the subject of Europe.

Brussels bureaucrats no more dictate the UK's law that Whitehall bureaucrats do. Anything that comes from Brussels has been requested by the Council (democratically elected heads of government), has been managed by Commissioners who were appointed by the democratically elected heads of government, has voted on in the democratically elected European parliament, has been thoroughly discussed by the relevant ministers and has been signed by the democratically elected heads of government.

Do you really think that leaving Europe would bring back any powers or rights to the UK? All imports would continue to follow EU rules and all UK exports would have to as well - though they would seriously diminish in quantity.

Do you really think that the UK would be irreparably damaged if beer were served in half litres or you paid for your shopping in euros? Are France or Germany any less France or Germany because they use the euro, not the franc or deutchmark? Or course they aren't. But the freedom of movement and trade they have through a common currency and the Schengen agreement are enormous.

It is quite possible that Europe has expanded too quickly and that the entry criteria for some newer countries were not strict enough. However, these countries have been through 45 years of communist oppression and I for one believe it's our duty to help them. In any case, given the state of the UK economy after 33 years of tory (with a small t, since Bliar is as tory as they come) government, they're packing up and going home in large numbers.

The main result of Britain's leaving the EU would be that the UK would have the same international voice as Switzerland. The US would drop it as a privileged partner, and so would EU countries.

Oh well, there's always our great empire ...

longpete, Obviously a committed Europhile at any cost to the UK. Your comments could be addressed one by one but from a little Englander, but to say that we are not ruled by the un-elected in Brussels is just supportive political murmurings, when we see our courts being over ruled, even our own Government (for what it's worth), and estimates of between 40% and 70% of decisions as to the running of this country and our very well being are made by the great un-elected in Brussels.
The old chestnut to say we would become a non trading entity with Europe is nonsense since they sell more goods to us than we to them. If you think for one moment that they would turn our trade away, please think again.
As to America, and I have family wed to Americans, (lovely people) the only times that the USA have engaged with us is when it has suited them. Yes they were eventually our Allies during World War 2, but only when they recognised that Europe would be a basket case if Hitler were to win, and of course the huge Jewish influence in American politics. Favors, they did us none, since right up to quite recently we were paying huge sums of money under lend lease agreements for all the arms, vehicles, planes, food and clothing supplied during WW2, plus the details of our Inventions were also given to them by our so-called politicians.
We have always had to fight as a small Nation in a Big Pool, but with the comments from those who support Europe simply for their own gain, we won't be able to rely on them will we.
The word Traitors has been used, I think as he cap fits many, so wear it.

Perhaps the most staggering part of Cameron's speech last Wednesday was the Labour Party's reaction.

Here was an open goal for the Labour Party to demand that referendum now. They could have called his bluff. Ed Miliband could have pressed the Prime Minister to give voters a say on Europe without ifs and buts. Yet they didn't. This was a betrayal of Labours core voters.

The Leader of the Opposition – nine per cent ahead before the latest Mail on Sunday poll – failed to challenge the Prime Minister. Instead he ran scared.

People with a long tradition of voting Labour, who would never dream of voting Conservative, are suddenly finding themselves unrepresented. For it is they who will bear the burden of the immediate impact that being part of the EU will have on Britain. Labour's claim to represent ordinary people fell to pieces when we realised that Ed Miliband had no such intention.

Open-door immigration from Romania and Bulgaria after December 31 will affect ordinary working families more than anybody else. Unemployment levels will be greatly exacerbated by the influx of migrants.

I believe that once the traditional Labour voters realise what that party is doing to them with its total, blind support for a Federal Europe, they will vote with their feet. This is now the biggest issue in UK politics, as every other perceived major UK problem has its roots in the way the EU are governing this country.

pronstar wrote:
I think he's just saying whatever he thinks will get him re-elected.

The reason I say this is because that's what they always do.

Not often I agree with you, Pronstar, but on this one, I suspect you're right.

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

No. Why on earth should we pay for a mass of infrastructure for a whole bunch of people to come here and make use of?

We have virtually no connection with these countries, and no need of yet more immigrants.

Why sacrifice our environment and waste our money trying to accommodate them?

pronstar wrote:

Lew Smoralz wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Jabbadad wrote:
He (Cameron) has still not addressed the looming EU invasion coming from the Million plus Romanians already packed to pop over the channel and swamp all our services take the benefits which the Tories are taking off our Frail & Elderly and pick our pockets, all allowed by INEPT ACTIONS from our SO CALLED POLITICIANS.

I agree, he should be making sure that the infrastructure is in place to manage any influx of people from the EU.

Investment in public services now will ensure that happens.

pronstar, my first reaction was that you were joking and I was amused; then there was a gradual realisation that you may be serious.

Please tell us it isn't so.

Of course I'm serious, I'm always serious.

So's flu.

In spite of the fact we allegedly have no money to spare, Mr Cameron is borrowing ever MORE money to give away, we are now to extend the EU's HS2. It has to eventually go all the way to Scotland which may not even be in the United Kingdom by then. Mr Cameron is even allowing a foreign Organisation dictate what we must have on our land (or is it now the EU's sovereign land now?). I am aware of the other contents of TEN-T, which would bring about the loss of UK Sovereignty over our SKY, PORTS and SEAS maybe all the way down apparently, to the Falkland Islands? (Recorded in Hansard)

I believe, without doubt, that should the people vote "YES" to remain in the EU, in the alleged REFERENDUM AFTER MR CAMERON and his Political Party has been elected to govern this Country once more, not only would this Country have to remain in the EU FOREVER-for I can not see another REFERENDUM on this Subject being allowed, plus, a "YES" would indeed destroy and over-ride our very own Common Law Constitution.

I am aware that for any Government to say an absolute "YES" to remaining in the EU would not be in keeping with their Oaths of Allegiance to the British Crown for, according to R v Thistlewood 1820, "To destroy the Constitution is treason" This is why the people will have a referendum and that the end result WILL indeed have to be a "YES" to remain in the EU forever one way or another.

That treason Act cannot be repealed because its purpose is there purely to protect our Constitution for all time. However, if the PEOPLE voted to remain in the EU, what better way of remaining in the European Union forever, and for it to become one great STATE finally? What indeed if it was not a true and fair referendum either? I would never have questioned that at one time, but now? However, more people are aware that we have THREE MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES that want to remain in the EU forever. So, come the next General election vote for any Political party or Organisation that wants out of the EU. Why vote for those that want the money and vast expenses but want foreigners to govern this Country forever? Yet our Constitution forbids exactly that?

Here Here.

Well said anewone, I haven't heard that argument about treason before.

I hadn't realised that even the Europhiles will eventually need a YES vote at a referendum to allow them to finally destroy the United Kingdom, without committing treason.

You have to watch the Federalists like a hawk.

In a way, this is almost a Monarchist/Federalis
t conflict!

IF the people were given an "IN" or "OUT" of the EU after the next General election just how much would be left to grab back by then when all this Coalition Government is doing is implementing EU legislation now?

We know without doubt that ALL THREE major Political Parties want to remain in the European Union, so use the General Election in 2015 as the REFERENDUM you may not be given anyway. We have been promised a Referendum by Mr Cameron before, and it didn't happen so why do you think it might happen in the future and AFTER he gets into power again?

Lew, this is either fight for your Countries freedom from foreign Rule which is absolutely contrary to our Constitution, or stand by and watch while British Governments PAY foreigners billions of BRITISH pounds to give the governing of it away to foreigners to govern-FOREVER. You know as well as I, that this Country will just become REGIONS of the European Union if we remain in, or just eventually it will become REGIONS of the EUROPEN UNION.