Herefordshire Council company info not available to public (From Ledbury Reporter)

Herefordshire Council company info not available to public

8:00am Tuesday 12th March 2013 in News

TWO Herefordshire Council linked companies with a huge say in the county’s everyday life and future are under no “obligation in law” to answer public interest questions about how they work or make key decisions.

Issues around Hereford Futures – the most public face of which is Hereford’s Old Livestock Market (OLM) project – and Hoople – set up to provide public sector support services – being subject to the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act have been put to the council’s overview and scrutiny committee.

Though both companies were helped into being by the council and work to council related briefs, their obligations under FOI were minimal if not non-existent, members were told.

Hereford Futures (HF) in particular has been pushed to make minutes of its board meetings public.

The council has an interest in HF as a company limited by guarantee with the council as a member, but the relationship does not require group accounts as the company provides an independent role in the redevelopment of Hereford.

Over the 2011/12 financial year, HF received £481,000 from the council, down from £586,000 in 2010/11.

As currently drafted, FOI is applicable to public authorities which includes the council.

Other public authorities and outside organisations may hold information on behalf of the council, in which case a request received by the council may mean obtaining this information in order to comply with the law.

But in some cases outside organisations hold information arising from work with the council – and this is outside the scope of FOI.

The issue first went to scrutiny in January when further reports were commissioned specifically in respect to Hereford Futures and, on a wider basis, how FOI related to so-called “arm’s length” companies.

Comments(23)

GDJ says...
8:55am Tue 12 Mar 13

This phrase

"members were told" is a bit vague.

Told by whom?

And there is a difference between "under no obligation to release information" and 'obliged not to release information'. The people we elect to our council could act with transparency if they choose to. If they choose not to, then we will all believe there is something to hide.

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William Rudd says...
9:17am Tue 12 Mar 13

But in some cases outside organisations hold information arising from work with the council – and this is outside the scope of FOI

And what part of THAT statement do you NOT understand?

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mizza21 says...
10:48am Tue 12 Mar 13

Good Lord.
So, if I understand this correctly,
Step 1, the council collects money from Council Tax payers through the powers vested in it in the Local Government Act.
Step 2, they pay a local company huge amounts of money for "services". This company in turn makes a profit, as companies are wont to do.
Step 3, The directors of the reputable company presumably benefit with dividends or shares and/or a salary. These directors are not accountable to the mugs, sorry Tax Payers in step 1.

I'd be interested to know if there are any councillors who are also directors of these companies.

I would like to make it clear I am not suggesting any impropriety or illegality here, but I do wonder how welcome Silvio would feel in this sort of company.

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Roger J says...
10:52am Tue 12 Mar 13

I suspect they may have something to hide otherwise why would they be taking this stance ?

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TwoWheelsGood says...
11:11am Tue 12 Mar 13

mizza - you forgot step 1a - councillor responsible for disgraceful IT scandal promotes idea and sets up IT company, councillor steps down, same former councillor becomes chair of the company (see Hoople).

Yes, both councillors and council officers are directors of Futiles and Hoople.

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bobby47 says...
11:16am Tue 12 Mar 13

Why do this? Why, after all our posts, complaints, moans and groans about the issue of 'secret democracy' do the Council allow, steer or give tacit approval to this underhand move?
And that's what it is. Whichever way this is dressed, spun out and spoonfed to us, this is in every single way an underhand action.
Why do people, organisations or any company do this? For one reason only.
To secrete the truth and keep the 'dark stuff' from ever being found or known.
If I were involved in a company and 'I' were involved in any illicit activity then 'I' would consider making a move like this.(I emphasise myself in this scenario)
This is no story to inject some silly humour. It ain't even a slice of news to hurl phlegm. This story is as bad as it can get and it shows, beyond any doubt, that this Council are completely in disarray and their scheme is now a runaway train and beyond their control.
How on earth did we allow all of this to happen?

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Herefordian07 says...
11:20am Tue 12 Mar 13

Obfuscation from all concerned in this redevelopment, "Let all the poisons in the pit seep out" There seems to be a similarity between RBS bank and our council, neither can balance their accounts but both are supported by the taxpayers whilst they pay out bonus to staff for failure, Marvellous!

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GDJ says...
11:52am Tue 12 Mar 13

William Rudd wrote:
But in some cases outside organisations hold information arising from work with the council – and this is outside the scope of FOI And what part of THAT statement do you NOT understand?

I understand the report - it is saying that HCC can hide its decision making processes by getting Hoople or Hereford Futures to make the decisions on its behalf (and therefore on our behalf).

I was making the point that although not obligatory, HCC could make a policy decision to make the decision processes transparent whether or not they are done through these companies.

What I don't understand, is your post.

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probono says...
12:13pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Why secrecy? Secrecy includes many members, staff and of course us the Council Tax Payers. When asked the answer is its is all'commercailly sensitive. What rubbish. Even if some of it is, then the rest of their minutes and agendas of meetings should be made available for everyone to view with the commercially sensitive bits redacted.

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probono says...
12:16pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Is it time for a mass demo at the next full Council meeitng ? TV camera s and HT present of course ?
Also see NH Cons have AGM coming up - will someone ask about this secrecy then and Wiggin's views. Ans same when jesse have AGM ?

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probono says...
12:18pm Tue 12 Mar 13

sorry - rather shaking with rage - I mean And same when Jesse has AGM ?

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mizza21 says...
1:13pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Probono, I would be very interested in Jesse and Billy's answers to the question, "Do you think it's acceptable for elected councillors to make outsource decisions where they are directors of the outsource company concerned and the company is not bound to reveal the minutes of board meetings?"

I may not be able to hear it though for the chants of "Jesse Jesse Jesse" and I may not be able to see for the sea of Jesse Norman tea towels being brandished like scarves at a football game.

TWG, the story of Hoople is a fabulous one. God I wish I had thought of that. Bloody Genius.

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silentbull says...
1:45pm Tue 12 Mar 13

If the public is paying for it then isn't it the publics 'right' to ask how its spent ?

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bobby47 says...
2:16pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Where's Dippy?

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TwoWheelsGood says...
4:58pm Tue 12 Mar 13

mizza - sadly, my post about how Hoople came about is not a story - it's an outrageous fact! After a bit of digging I see start up costs to the Council originally estimated at £1m+ together with transfer of expensive computering kit. It seems Hoople are now charging us in the region of £11m pa for doing things behind closed doors.

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mizza21 says...
9:52am Wed 13 Mar 13

TWG. This sort of activity makes the practise of certain Italian politicians look tame.

£11 Million per year ??

That's our money and they don't have to say what they are doing with it !

When are the bloody local elections ? I have a good mind to nominate King Bobby to stand and bring all these issues to the fore.

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megilleland says...
11:46am Wed 13 Mar 13

Michael Heseltine said:
"Localism is about a partnership, and so you have got to have a mechanism that relates the ambitions of the LEP with the policies of central Government. This will be, in the context of my report, the creation of local offices of government - call it what you will, but in Manchester there will be a group of officials who are effectively civil servants from the London spending Departments, but they will work together on a place based concept. In order to bid for the central pot, there will be a dialogue between that influential civil service base and the central decision making process. It will not be possible for them all to say, "We are all going to be whiz kids in aerospace," for example, because the sectoral analysis of Government will actually have decided where the opportunities in aerospace are".

Could this be Hereford.

The CPRE also complained that only patchy information about LEPs’ activities is publicly available because, unlike RDAs (which they replace), they are not covered by the Freedom of Information Act. “LEPs are in danger of turning into one-sided, business lobby groups which are divorced from wider public concerns,” said CPRE regional campaigns co-ordinator Gerald Kells. “We urge LEP boards to … actively seek ways to positively engage with groups who want to make sure that growth helps us to meet our social and environmental goals.

It is staggering to come across so many organisations which impact on our lives, at our cost, which local politicians belong to ie West Midlands Councils Cllr Jarvis representing Herefordshire Council.

http://www.wmcouncil
s.org.uk/about-us
WMC provides a range of services to councils and other public sector organisations through its Training and Consultancy Services arm, in areas such as Human Resources and councillor development.

What are they developing?

Everyone believes that local government is the authority for policy, decisions and services in the county. Some people who are more in the know, know that this is not the case and there is a power shift away from the county. Central government has been working with Local Enterprise Partnerships, ours is the Marches LEP, to set up what will eventually become regional authorities related to the EU. http://www.marchesle p.org.uk/lep-board These LEPs are not publicly accountable, elect their own members and will decide where tax payers money will be spent in the region (ie Shropshire, Herefordshire, Telford & Wrekin. They work closely with central government bypassing local government. [quote]Michael Heseltine said: "Localism is about a partnership, and so you have got to have a mechanism that relates the ambitions of the LEP with the policies of central Government. This will be, in the context of my report, the creation of local offices of government - call it what you will, but in Manchester there will be a group of officials who are effectively civil servants from the London spending Departments, but they will work together on a place based concept. In order to bid for the central pot, there will be a dialogue between that influential civil service base and the central decision making process. It will not be possible for them all to say, "We are all going to be whiz kids in aerospace," for example, because the sectoral analysis of Government will actually have decided where the opportunities in aerospace are".[/quote] Could this be Hereford. The CPRE also complained that only patchy information about LEPs’ activities is publicly available because, unlike RDAs (which they replace), they are not covered by the Freedom of Information Act. “LEPs are in danger of turning into one-sided, business lobby groups which are divorced from wider public concerns,” said CPRE regional campaigns co-ordinator Gerald Kells. “We urge LEP boards to … actively seek ways to positively engage with groups who want to make sure that growth helps us to meet our social and environmental goals. It is staggering to come across so many organisations which impact on our lives, at our cost, which local politicians belong to ie West Midlands Councils Cllr Jarvis representing Herefordshire Council. [quote]http://www.wmcouncil s.org.uk/about-us WMC provides a range of services to councils and other public sector organisations through its Training and Consultancy Services arm, in areas such as Human Resources and councillor development.[/quote] What are they developing? megilleland

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TwoWheelsGood says...
2:48pm Wed 13 Mar 13

WMC sounds and looks a LOT like the fake charity Common Purpose to me - to which our Council have paid £100k's for indoctrination of employees (confirmed by FOI requests) and to which departed CEO Chris Bull was a 'graduate'. All levels of government and public service have been infiltrated by Common Purpose - this is what Common Purpose calls 'leading beyond authority'.

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bobby47 says...
3:34pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Megilleland & TWG, I didn't know any of this. I had no idea. I knew it was bad but this!!!!
How did we ever allow this to germinate, take root and grow out of our control to this extent?

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megilleland says...
6:45pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Eric Pickles Opens Town Hall Doors to Local Bloggers
http://blog.tweetyha
ll.co.uk/2012/08/eri
c-pickles-opens-town
-hall-doors-to-local
-bloggers/
{quote]Social media, transparency and openness are words which all risk being big ideas without big actions. Hopefully a clear message from central government will not only ensure that councils open up, but also that communities are aware of their ability to pry into the inner workings of their local council.

The DCLG’s announcement covers a range of points, including: a presumption in favour of openness; new legal rights for citizen reporters; and a publication requirement – aimed at ensuring that the information citizens want and need is readily available for scrutiny.

The practical applications of Eric Pickles’ new bill can of course be argued about, and many councils will (correctly) claim that this is already how they operate. In my opinion though, legislation such as this gives endorsement to openness, ensuring that those of us wishing to push this issue can do so confidently.

It is clear that increasing transparency, openness and the publishing of data in local government are necessary steps forward. With the number of traditional local news outlets falling, citizen journalism offers a real and viable alternative. It can provide access to regular commentary on local issues and local government; and can also drastically boost engagement by opening the process to much greater numbers of of stakeholders.

But merely opening up local council meetings and publishing data is not enough to get a community to engage. Local councils must be creative and look at ways of fostering online communities around their services and equipping residents with the tools and means to scrutinise the council.

Councils have the power to help build an army of hyperlocal journalists, providing vital information, knowledge and news, whilst also scrutinising their council. These bloggers, tweeters and commentators can encourage people to re-engage in local politics, and help to make local government more accessible.

Furthermore, councils should see this as an indication that they should be investigating new ways of liberating their data and presenting it in formats that are accessible, adaptable and open. Local government taking inspiration from central government’s current open data drive will help to build a new web of local, well structured data; allowing developers to build applications offering tremendous benefits to local communities.

In the end, of course, it all comes down to councillors. We all must keep searching for innovation in communication, pushing for the liberation of data and fighting for the citizen journalists. Councillors that can see that unlocking the doors to the town hall is vital to its survival and rebuilding the community link must keep making the case for it.

Anyone else other than Cllr Powell willing to contribute to these posts?

Eric Pickles Opens Town Hall Doors to Local Bloggers http://blog.tweetyha ll.co.uk/2012/08/eri c-pickles-opens-town -hall-doors-to-local -bloggers/ {quote]Social media, transparency and openness are words which all risk being big ideas without big actions. Hopefully a clear message from central government will not only ensure that councils open up, but also that communities are aware of their ability to pry into the inner workings of their local council. The DCLG’s announcement covers a range of points, including: a presumption in favour of openness; new legal rights for citizen reporters; and a publication requirement – aimed at ensuring that the information citizens want and need is readily available for scrutiny. The practical applications of Eric Pickles’ new bill can of course be argued about, and many councils will (correctly) claim that this is already how they operate. In my opinion though, legislation such as this gives endorsement to openness, ensuring that those of us wishing to push this issue can do so confidently. It is clear that increasing transparency, openness and the publishing of data in local government are necessary steps forward. With the number of traditional local news outlets falling, citizen journalism offers a real and viable alternative. It can provide access to regular commentary on local issues and local government; and can also drastically boost engagement by opening the process to much greater numbers of of stakeholders. But merely opening up local council meetings and publishing data is not enough to get a community to engage. Local councils must be creative and look at ways of fostering online communities around their services and equipping residents with the tools and means to scrutinise the council. Councils have the power to help build an army of hyperlocal journalists, providing vital information, knowledge and news, whilst also scrutinising their council. These bloggers, tweeters and commentators can encourage people to re-engage in local politics, and help to make local government more accessible. Furthermore, councils should see this as an indication that they should be investigating new ways of liberating their data and presenting it in formats that are accessible, adaptable and open. Local government taking inspiration from central government’s current open data drive will help to build a new web of local, well structured data; allowing developers to build applications offering tremendous benefits to local communities. In the end, of course, it all comes down to councillors. We all must keep searching for innovation in communication, pushing for the liberation of data and fighting for the citizen journalists. Councillors that can see that unlocking the doors to the town hall is vital to its survival and rebuilding the community link must keep making the case for it.[/quote] Anyone else other than Cllr Powell willing to contribute to these posts? megilleland

Report this post »

megilleland says...
6:46pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Eric Pickles Opens Town Hall Doors to Local Bloggers
http://blog.tweetyha
ll.co.uk/2012/08/eri
c-pickles-opens-town
-hall-doors-to-local
-bloggers/

Social media, transparency and openness are words which all risk being big ideas without big actions. Hopefully a clear message from central government will not only ensure that councils open up, but also that communities are aware of their ability to pry into the inner workings of their local council.

The DCLG’s announcement covers a range of points, including: a presumption in favour of openness; new legal rights for citizen reporters; and a publication requirement – aimed at ensuring that the information citizens want and need is readily available for scrutiny.

The practical applications of Eric Pickles’ new bill can of course be argued about, and many councils will (correctly) claim that this is already how they operate. In my opinion though, legislation such as this gives endorsement to openness, ensuring that those of us wishing to push this issue can do so confidently.

It is clear that increasing transparency, openness and the publishing of data in local government are necessary steps forward. With the number of traditional local news outlets falling, citizen journalism offers a real and viable alternative. It can provide access to regular commentary on local issues and local government; and can also drastically boost engagement by opening the process to much greater numbers of of stakeholders.

But merely opening up local council meetings and publishing data is not enough to get a community to engage. Local councils must be creative and look at ways of fostering online communities around their services and equipping residents with the tools and means to scrutinise the council.

Councils have the power to help build an army of hyperlocal journalists, providing vital information, knowledge and news, whilst also scrutinising their council. These bloggers, tweeters and commentators can encourage people to re-engage in local politics, and help to make local government more accessible.

Furthermore, councils should see this as an indication that they should be investigating new ways of liberating their data and presenting it in formats that are accessible, adaptable and open. Local government taking inspiration from central government’s current open data drive will help to build a new web of local, well structured data; allowing developers to build applications offering tremendous benefits to local communities.

In the end, of course, it all comes down to councillors. We all must keep searching for innovation in communication, pushing for the liberation of data and fighting for the citizen journalists. Councillors that can see that unlocking the doors to the town hall is vital to its survival and rebuilding the community link must keep making the case for it.

Anyone else other than Cllr Powell willing to contribute to this blog?

Eric Pickles Opens Town Hall Doors to Local Bloggers http://blog.tweetyha ll.co.uk/2012/08/eri c-pickles-opens-town -hall-doors-to-local -bloggers/ [quote]Social media, transparency and openness are words which all risk being big ideas without big actions. Hopefully a clear message from central government will not only ensure that councils open up, but also that communities are aware of their ability to pry into the inner workings of their local council. The DCLG’s announcement covers a range of points, including: a presumption in favour of openness; new legal rights for citizen reporters; and a publication requirement – aimed at ensuring that the information citizens want and need is readily available for scrutiny. The practical applications of Eric Pickles’ new bill can of course be argued about, and many councils will (correctly) claim that this is already how they operate. In my opinion though, legislation such as this gives endorsement to openness, ensuring that those of us wishing to push this issue can do so confidently. It is clear that increasing transparency, openness and the publishing of data in local government are necessary steps forward. With the number of traditional local news outlets falling, citizen journalism offers a real and viable alternative. It can provide access to regular commentary on local issues and local government; and can also drastically boost engagement by opening the process to much greater numbers of of stakeholders. But merely opening up local council meetings and publishing data is not enough to get a community to engage. Local councils must be creative and look at ways of fostering online communities around their services and equipping residents with the tools and means to scrutinise the council. Councils have the power to help build an army of hyperlocal journalists, providing vital information, knowledge and news, whilst also scrutinising their council. These bloggers, tweeters and commentators can encourage people to re-engage in local politics, and help to make local government more accessible. Furthermore, councils should see this as an indication that they should be investigating new ways of liberating their data and presenting it in formats that are accessible, adaptable and open. Local government taking inspiration from central government’s current open data drive will help to build a new web of local, well structured data; allowing developers to build applications offering tremendous benefits to local communities. In the end, of course, it all comes down to councillors. We all must keep searching for innovation in communication, pushing for the liberation of data and fighting for the citizen journalists. Councillors that can see that unlocking the doors to the town hall is vital to its survival and rebuilding the community link must keep making the case for it.[/quote] Anyone else other than Cllr Powell willing to contribute to this blog? megilleland

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bobby47 says...
7:47pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Megilleland, You my good friend are a genius! This is brilliant. This will fire me and the others up.
Im pumped and charged and ready to resume battle with my nemesis.
Well done Megilleland.

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dippyhippy says...
3:05pm Thu 14 Mar 13

" Citizen Journalists" I like the sound of that! Megilleland, a brilliant and informative post!

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